Posts by Crisis of Conscience

12

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses.......................About Jehovah

by Crisis of Conscience in

i've had some people in the congregation lately try to give me pep talks to encourage me not to give up.. when i mention (not to everyone of course) some of the things that bother me about the org, many times they can't come up with a legitimate answer so they make up an excuse.. for example, i mention the double standards that i saw at bethel as well as the lack of love in certain brothers.

i get a blank stare and then an, "oh, that's because jehovah allows imperfect in the org.

but he'll clear things up when it's time.".

Crisis of Conscience

I agree cult classic . And I respectfully will listen to an opinion/explanation.

But when the response is, "Uh, umm, well, (quick! think of something!).............", it's just really bothersome.

And an excuse generally follows.

CoC

12

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses.......................About Jehovah

by Crisis of Conscience in

i've had some people in the congregation lately try to give me pep talks to encourage me not to give up.. when i mention (not to everyone of course) some of the things that bother me about the org, many times they can't come up with a legitimate answer so they make up an excuse.. for example, i mention the double standards that i saw at bethel as well as the lack of love in certain brothers.

i get a blank stare and then an, "oh, that's because jehovah allows imperfect in the org.

but he'll clear things up when it's time.".

Crisis of Conscience

I've had some people in the congregation lately try to give me pep talks to encourage me not to give up.

When I mention (not to everyone of course) some of the things that bother me about the org, many times they can't come up with a legitimate answer so they make up an excuse.

For example, I mention the double standards that I saw at Bethel as well as the lack of love in certain brothers. I get a blank stare and then an, "Oh, that's because Jehovah allows imperfect in the org. But he'll clear things up when it's time."

Another example - why would Jehovah allow someone to perhaps be wrongfully disfellowshipped (a real conversation I've had)? The answer, "We don't know. But one thing is certain, Jehovah wants proven purity in the congregation. And he wouldn't let the person go through that if they couldn't handle it." Huh, really? So he prefers to let someone suffer and loose everything, IN A DECISION MADE IN ERROR, because he wants purity?

KNOCK IT OFF!! Stop with the friggin' excuses already! If Jehovah is so wonderful, powerful, and almighty, why do people constantly feel the need to try to justify why they THINK he did or allowed something?! Can they read his mind? NO, so stop it already!! I am really sick of hearing them. STOP making excuses as to why God does/did something. There is no absolute explanation which means it's speculation.

I'm not attacking anyone here, although I know it does happen. I just have been hearing it too much from people in the congregation I attend as well as other "friends".

CoC

36

"Where else would we go?" - A common JW cliche'.

by Crisis of Conscience in

how many times have you heard that before, whether in or out?

in the past, i truly believed that.

if i were to leave the "truth", where else would i go?.

Crisis of Conscience

BTTT

54

J.R.Brown

by Mall Cop in

it's been very quiet concerning him.

anyone have an update, information on his where-abouts and current position?

he use to be the spoke-person for the society in the news media etc.

Crisis of Conscience

The YouTube video is definitely nice to see and hear. But is there actual video of J.R. Brown talking saying such things? It would be great to show someone else.

I can picture a witness saying, "Oh I don't see any faces. How do I know that is him for sure and not some apostate talking like him?"

Anything to defend the "truth"!

CoC

39

Did you ever try any of the awkward, and somewhat creepy suggestions in the KM for Informal Witnessing?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

the august km, has an article entitled, "you can witness informally!

" this week's service meeting will cover half of the 13 questions.

next week, congregations will finish the article along with a box full of several experiences with successful results from informal witnessing.

Crisis of Conscience

Even when I was still focused on "pleasing" Jehovah, I still felt quite awkward about a lot of suggestions offered. Besides, they were only suggestions - but some people were so pushy about them.

And I would ask myself why I was being made to do or say something I didn't want to? If I felt uncomfortable and didn't want to do it, leave me the H*&L alone!

If I tried it and still didn't like it, leave me the H%^L alone!

Needless to say, that KM part on informal witnessing this week was a bit disturbing. It was something I rarely did in the past because I found it uncomfortable. And I used to ridicule (to myself) those that were always talking about their religion or Jesus. So why should I do it too?

As I heard that info the other night, I thought about how I will never informal witness again. In fact, it brought me back to the last time I did it, just as I was waking up to the smell of WT BS. I tried to inform a coworker what I believed in because he asked. He thought it sounded ridiculous. I'm glad he was so forward because at that time, deep down inside, I knew I didn't believe it either.

Hey wait a second! That was a positive experience in informal witnessing! It does work.....on me. It helped wake me up!! LOL

CoC

91

Newbie: Roll Call ---- Oldies Returning: Roll Call

by cameo-d in

jw
friends

i have noticed a lot of newbies lately.

(i also noticed that after being absent for a year happy1975 is making a return visit.).

so, if you are a brand spanking newbie, post here and tell us a little about your interests, your state, your new direction in life, your favorite things, whatever you want to say---this is your thread.. .

Crisis of Conscience

Thanks a bunch flipper !! I love it here!!

CoC

194

Bethel Rules

by brotherdan in

this was brought up just in passing on another thread.

but i wanted to see if there are any bethelites or ex bethelites that remember some of the crazy rules we had to follow when we were there..

Crisis of Conscience

elderelite - You had to dress to go to all meals (shirt and tie) no matter what your job was. So you showered and changed min three times a day.

you had to dresses to WALK to work (shirt and tie)

Because of the job I was assigned to do, this drove me insane! At first I managed to only have to change clothes twice. And then they enforced the rule at Patterson that during dinner time, you could not go to the dining room and glean food if you were in clothes other than dress pants and dress shirt. Ties were still optional.

Also, you weren't supposed to have guests in YOUR room overnight wothout permission.

Saturdays - You had to attend morning worship. I learned really quick from a brother who had been at Bethel for over 10 years that it wasn't necessary, and no one seemed to ask. So I rarely went after that.

And then I had to work Saturday mornings but I never had any work to do. Everyone else was off because of their time at Bethel. I began to wonder what my purpose was a Bethel.

BETHEL CAME FIRST!! Obnoxious rule. (Not kidding either. They really said that.)

CoC

10

For those still "in" for whatever reason, how long did it take you to disconnect from the things you were taught?

by Crisis of Conscience in

i'm coming up on a year of when i first "woke up" regarding the org.

i still am "in" because i am trying to weigh out my options.

my wife is still mentally "in" and i know way to many people.

Crisis of Conscience

@ Doubting Bro - That is my next goal - to step aside from any congregational responsibilities. And this site is really giving me the strength and confidence to do it. Now for timing................................ It's coming. I can feel it.

@ WalkTall - Thank you. Your example gives me hope that I can survive. At this point I've managed to control any screaming in my head. Their words mean nothing. I wish you the best.

CoC

10

For those still "in" for whatever reason, how long did it take you to disconnect from the things you were taught?

by Crisis of Conscience in

i'm coming up on a year of when i first "woke up" regarding the org.

i still am "in" because i am trying to weigh out my options.

my wife is still mentally "in" and i know way to many people.

Crisis of Conscience

I agree with Mickey mouse. I personally don't feel like I just have to leave or that I can't take the meetings anymore, despite being "awake" for a year. My problem, if I can call it a problem, is that I really am a people person. I'm not ready to loose everyone socially. So I play the game. And as long as nobody is shunning me because they don't really know how I feel, it doesn't seem to matter what I believe. I realize it may not be like this forever. But hey, I'll ride the wave!

Keeping quiet is tough, but I just don't feel the stress that I used to. Sure I hear ridiculous things at the meeting, but I don't go home and "meditate" on them. And yes this site is the major reason I don't have that stress. I can express myself without repercussions!!

Like St George of England , my wife is definitely a factor. I really, really, really have a good woman. She is not 100% brainwashed and that makes it a little easier. And I don't want to force things and cause problems. Slowly I hope to help her open her eyes.

@ thenoblelodge - I actually do think almost daily, or rather wish, some big problem would arise in the congregation that would open my wife's eyes and cause her to say, "Deuces! I'm out!" And I would gladly support her. One can dream, aye.

CoC

9

Finally talked to my dad about it...

by gutted in

last night i finally talked to my dad about some of my views and problems with being a witness.

he brought it up as he heard i am no longer going to meetings.. .

his line of reasoning was interesting, though very similar to "it's god's organization, just follow it".

Crisis of Conscience

This is a great thread! Oh and what's with people talking to their fathers lately? LOL

I have had the same conversation with my father recently. And let me say, that gollygeegoshdarned belief in the FDS is a tough nut to crack!!

My father finally admitted to me that he hasn't attended a meeting in quite a while (which I already suspected). I thought this could be a good time to plant some seeds. So I let him know that I was very discouraged, though still attending meetings. I asked him his reason and he gave it to be the way some of the brothers in his hall act/acted as the cause.

So from there it turned into a conversation lasting a few hours. I brought up doubts I had and things that I felt didn't make sense. He surprisingly agreed and admitted he thought about a lot of those things for a long time, even when he first started studying and got baptized. He said he especially hated the man-made titles and positions.

But alas, in the end he still feels there is a FDS. Despite acknowledging the flip flops in teaching!! Now he attended the convention,said he really enjoyed it, and says he wants to start going back to the meetings but finds it difficult. AAARRGH!!

I understand the frustration you all have with family, as I am in the same boat. I wish you all the best in the struggle.

CoC